BY DERRICK GOOLD | Posted: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:45 am | (6) Comments
TOWER GROVE • When I finished one of the early drafts of the St. Louis Cardinals' top 10 prospects for Baseball America, there were two well-known and obvious names that I skipped over, completely forgot, didn't rank at all.
I blame October.
Having watched Lance Lynn work in the World Series and charted the availability for the postseason of Eduardo Sanchez, I took it for granted that the two relievers, like Allen Craig and Daniel Descalso, had torched their eligibility for the annual ranking of the top 10 prospects in the Cardinals' system. Not so. Both still qualify. Both just qualify. A rewrite was in order.
This morning, at Baseball America's official Web site, the Cardinals' Top 10 was released, under the headline "Flying High." Shelby Miller is the prospect featured in the picture, and naturally Miller is the top prospect on the list. The scouting reports that go with each player are behind the pay wall at BA. But here is the list, as compiled in a joint effort between the editors at BA, including Jim Callis, and myself:
1. Shelby Miller, rhp
2. Carlos Martinez, rhp
3. Oscar Taveras, of
4. Zack Cox, 3b
5. Kolten Wong, 2b
6. Tyrell Jenkins, rhp
7. Lance Lynn, rhp
8. Eduardo Sanchez, rhp
9. Matt Adams, 1b
10. Jordan Swagerty, rhp
The addition of Lynn and Sanchez to the list reorganized the top seven, of course, but also left some worthy prospects outside the top 10. A few of those considered for those spots were RHP Trevor Rosenthal, SS Ryan Jackson, 3B Matt Carpenter and newcomer OF Charlie Tilson.
You can see the list and the "top tools" survey from the organization -- best control? Boone Whiting! -- by following this link.
As usual, there will be a chat at BA's site at 2 p.m. today St. Louis time.
But the conversation won't be confined to BA.
Each year, I open the floor here to questions about the top 10, about the Cardinals' system, and, yes, about the top 30 that will appear in the forthcoming Baseball America 2012 Prospect Handbook. We'll do it in the style of those old pre-chat PostCards mailbags. There are three ways to submit a question:
Write dgoold@post-dispatch.com. Please include name and city, if you please.
Scrawl a question in the comments section below.
Visit Bird Land@Facebook and write a question on the wall.
Any question is fair. Comments are welcome.
These rankings always come with a caveat. Remember, the players are only compared against other prospects in the Cardinals' system. That means a top-10 prospect in the Cardinals system might not crack the top 20 in, say, the Kansas City Royals' system. There is no perfect way to rank prospects, and the attempt here is to offer a snapshot of the system through its prospects.
I find it helpful to use history as a lesson.
I've done the rankings for Baseball America for the past five years -- actually more, but whatever -- and each year I sit down and look through past rankings to see what went right and what went wrong. I want to fight Prospect Fatigue and correct any blindspots. I whiffed on Matt Adams last year, and the reasons he didn't crack the rankings are now ones I've reconsidered.
My goal each year is not to contribute to the hype of prospects, but to offer context for these prospects and illustrate what they've done, what they're capable of doing (if everything goes right), and what they have to improve to make it happen.
It's far easier to criticize the rankings than to do them.
That latter actually takes time, research, reporting, knowing the names of lower minor-leaguers, etc.
The rankings aren't "my" rankings. I write the scouting reports and make some suggestions for the order. The rankings truly are the blend of opinions from scouts from other teams, coaches, opposing managers, Cardinals' officials, reporters and, of course, the editors at Baseball America. I think in recent years all of that has resulted in some informed top 10s. Look back at the Cardinals' top 10 that came after the 2009 season, and consider the number of prospects ranked in that top 10 that contributed to the recent World Series title:
1. Shelby Miller, RHP
2. Jaime Garcia, LHP
3. Lance Lynn, RHP
4. Daryl Jones, OF
5. David Freese, 3B
6. Eduardo Sanchez, RHP
7. Allen Craig, OF
8. Blake Hawksworth, RHP
9. Daniel Descalso, 2B
10. Robert Stock, C
Jones was coming off his "player of the year season." In hindsight, Craig could have been higher, but his lack of position at the time held him (incorrectly) out of the top five. Still ... Eight out of 10 ain't bad. I bet there are some farm directors who would take that kind of return on their internal rankings.
Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/baseball-america-names-cardinals-top-prospects/article_e691460a-152b-11e1-a669-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1eTq9NUhD
Tuesday, November 22, 2011
Monday, November 7, 2011
Friday, December 11, 2009
Wednesday, December 9, 2009
Wednesday, November 4, 2009
Gibson scoffs at rest 'issue'
By RICK HUMMEL
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Tuesday, Nov. 03 2009
PHILADELPHIA — One of the biggest issues raised during the World Series this
year has been the philosophy of employing starting pitchers on three days'
rest, which, in today's game, basically has gone the way of the dinosaur.
While the New York Yankees have had the baseball world abuzz by using CC
Sabathia and A.J. Burnett on three days' rest — with the potential of asking
Andy Pettitte to do the same and Sabathia to do it again — the Philadelphia
Phillies and manager Charlie Manuel have taken the more cautious approach.
Manuel wouldn't let Cliff Lee, who started Monday night's Game 5 for the
Phillies, talk him into pitching Sunday on three days' rest. The Phillies lost
to fall into a 3-1 hole.
The greatest starting pitcher in World Series history, Cardinals Hall of Famer
Bob Gibson, wondered from his home in Omaha, Neb., what all the fuss was
about.
"What's the big deal?" Gibson said Monday night. "I don't get it. I don't think
it's going to kill somebody.
"A pitcher can't pitch with three days' rest? Some of those guys make $8
million a week."
Gibson made nine starts in three World Series, winning seven of them and
pitching exactly 81 innings — 10 innings in one game, eight in another and
twirling complete games in the other seven.
Burnett didn't fare as well for the Yankees on Monday night. He was pulled in
the third inning after the first four batters reached base and was charged with
six earned runs in his start.
In the Cardinals' 1967 World Series victory over the Boston Red Sox, Gibson won
three games, starting Games 4 and 7 on three days' rest after opening the
Series.
In 1968, Gibson again pitched Games, 1, 4 and 7 with the latter two on three
days' rest as the Cardinals lost to the Detroit Tigers.
Earlier, in 1964, Gibson stretched his arm to the limit as the Cardinals
strained to win the National League pennant. On the last Friday of the season,
he worked eight innings in a 1-0 loss to Al Jackson and the New York Mets. He
then pitched four innings of relief on the last Sunday, gaining the win as the
Cardinals finally nailed down the flag, and three days later started Game 2 of
the World Series and worked eight innings in a win against the New York
Yankees.
On three days' rest, Gibson pitched a 10-inning win in Game 5 and then, on two
days' rest, pitched a complete-game victory in Game 7.
Even Gibson admitted, though, that five games in 17 days was a bit much.
"I didn't feel really dynamite after that," he said.
But, under normal circumstances, he doesn't see any problem with starters
working with three days' rest in postseason play.
"I don't imagine you'd want to do that all year," Gibson said. "But for
playoffs and World Series ... if you can't do it then, when the hell can you do
it? I don't quite get it.
"I just think they make a little too much about it. I don't know who it is — if
it's the media or what."
While Manuel discussed the rest matter with Lee, Gibson said he never had any
such conversations with managers Johnny Keane and Red Schoendienst.
"Nobody ever sat down with me and said, 'Would it be OK if I pitch with three
days' rest?' I told them, 'I'm going to pitch every fourth day.'
"I would have been disappointed if I hadn't."
CARDINALS STOLE FOUR AT ONCE
Johnny Damon's two steals at once for the Yankees on Sunday night was nothing
compared to what the Cardinals' Vince Coleman and Willie McGee pulled off in
the first inning Aug. 1, 1985, at Wrigley Field.
With Coleman at second and McGee at first, the two lit out on a double steal
with Scott Sanderson pitching. Coleman beat catcher Jody Davis' throw to third
but overslid the bag after touching it. Since third baseman Ron Cey had the
ball in his hand, Coleman decided going back to third had no virtue and set
sail for home.
A rundown ensued, with McGee trailing the play. Sanderson and Davis ultimately
got themselves out of position and Cey, nicknamed the Penguin, ended up
futilely chasing Coleman to a now unoccupied home plate. McGee wound up at
third.
"I knew I couldn't get back to the bag," Coleman said then. "I was still in
no-man's land. So my reaction was to go to the next base."
After conferring by phone with Seymour Siwoff of the Elias Sports Bureau,
official scorer Randy Minkoff awarded each runner two steals.
SIGN STEALERS?
Larry Bowa, a Los Angeles Dodgers coach who used to play for and manage the
Phillies, wondered on ESPN radio Monday if the Phillies were stealing signs at
Citizens Bank Park, prompting an unusual number of conferences involving
Yankees catcher Jorge Posada and Sabathia on Sunday.
"There are rumors going around," said Bowa on radio, "that when you play the
Phillies, there's a camera somewhere or bullpen people are giving signs, and
catchers are constantly changing signs."
Bowa concluded, "Any edge you can get, you take advantage of it."
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Tuesday, Nov. 03 2009
PHILADELPHIA — One of the biggest issues raised during the World Series this
year has been the philosophy of employing starting pitchers on three days'
rest, which, in today's game, basically has gone the way of the dinosaur.
While the New York Yankees have had the baseball world abuzz by using CC
Sabathia and A.J. Burnett on three days' rest — with the potential of asking
Andy Pettitte to do the same and Sabathia to do it again — the Philadelphia
Phillies and manager Charlie Manuel have taken the more cautious approach.
Manuel wouldn't let Cliff Lee, who started Monday night's Game 5 for the
Phillies, talk him into pitching Sunday on three days' rest. The Phillies lost
to fall into a 3-1 hole.
The greatest starting pitcher in World Series history, Cardinals Hall of Famer
Bob Gibson, wondered from his home in Omaha, Neb., what all the fuss was
about.
"What's the big deal?" Gibson said Monday night. "I don't get it. I don't think
it's going to kill somebody.
"A pitcher can't pitch with three days' rest? Some of those guys make $8
million a week."
Gibson made nine starts in three World Series, winning seven of them and
pitching exactly 81 innings — 10 innings in one game, eight in another and
twirling complete games in the other seven.
Burnett didn't fare as well for the Yankees on Monday night. He was pulled in
the third inning after the first four batters reached base and was charged with
six earned runs in his start.
In the Cardinals' 1967 World Series victory over the Boston Red Sox, Gibson won
three games, starting Games 4 and 7 on three days' rest after opening the
Series.
In 1968, Gibson again pitched Games, 1, 4 and 7 with the latter two on three
days' rest as the Cardinals lost to the Detroit Tigers.
Earlier, in 1964, Gibson stretched his arm to the limit as the Cardinals
strained to win the National League pennant. On the last Friday of the season,
he worked eight innings in a 1-0 loss to Al Jackson and the New York Mets. He
then pitched four innings of relief on the last Sunday, gaining the win as the
Cardinals finally nailed down the flag, and three days later started Game 2 of
the World Series and worked eight innings in a win against the New York
Yankees.
On three days' rest, Gibson pitched a 10-inning win in Game 5 and then, on two
days' rest, pitched a complete-game victory in Game 7.
Even Gibson admitted, though, that five games in 17 days was a bit much.
"I didn't feel really dynamite after that," he said.
But, under normal circumstances, he doesn't see any problem with starters
working with three days' rest in postseason play.
"I don't imagine you'd want to do that all year," Gibson said. "But for
playoffs and World Series ... if you can't do it then, when the hell can you do
it? I don't quite get it.
"I just think they make a little too much about it. I don't know who it is — if
it's the media or what."
While Manuel discussed the rest matter with Lee, Gibson said he never had any
such conversations with managers Johnny Keane and Red Schoendienst.
"Nobody ever sat down with me and said, 'Would it be OK if I pitch with three
days' rest?' I told them, 'I'm going to pitch every fourth day.'
"I would have been disappointed if I hadn't."
CARDINALS STOLE FOUR AT ONCE
Johnny Damon's two steals at once for the Yankees on Sunday night was nothing
compared to what the Cardinals' Vince Coleman and Willie McGee pulled off in
the first inning Aug. 1, 1985, at Wrigley Field.
With Coleman at second and McGee at first, the two lit out on a double steal
with Scott Sanderson pitching. Coleman beat catcher Jody Davis' throw to third
but overslid the bag after touching it. Since third baseman Ron Cey had the
ball in his hand, Coleman decided going back to third had no virtue and set
sail for home.
A rundown ensued, with McGee trailing the play. Sanderson and Davis ultimately
got themselves out of position and Cey, nicknamed the Penguin, ended up
futilely chasing Coleman to a now unoccupied home plate. McGee wound up at
third.
"I knew I couldn't get back to the bag," Coleman said then. "I was still in
no-man's land. So my reaction was to go to the next base."
After conferring by phone with Seymour Siwoff of the Elias Sports Bureau,
official scorer Randy Minkoff awarded each runner two steals.
SIGN STEALERS?
Larry Bowa, a Los Angeles Dodgers coach who used to play for and manage the
Phillies, wondered on ESPN radio Monday if the Phillies were stealing signs at
Citizens Bank Park, prompting an unusual number of conferences involving
Yankees catcher Jorge Posada and Sabathia on Sunday.
"There are rumors going around," said Bowa on radio, "that when you play the
Phillies, there's a camera somewhere or bullpen people are giving signs, and
catchers are constantly changing signs."
Bowa concluded, "Any edge you can get, you take advantage of it."
Thursday, October 15, 2009
The Cardinals and new generations
By PH8 on STLToday.com
There was an excellent letter to the editor at STLToday.com yesterday that I felt obliged to share with you, not only because I think it’s a fitting tribute to this past season’s Cardinal team – despite the unsavory finish – but also because it sums up a lot of the sentimentality I feel toward the Cardinals as well.
I struggled to find one snippet I could quote here that would sum up the whole thing, so instead I’m going to pull out tinier bits and then you’ll just have to go read the whole thing yourself via the link above.
As a kid I remember my mom and dad putting everything on hold to watch playoff games.
…
This town did not just “happen” to be a great baseball town, it’s made of generations and generations of families putting life on hold to watch the Cardinals.
Yep, and actually, as I think I’ve mentioned here before – I still have the 1982 World Series program on my bookshelf. A gift from my father that I will always cherish (even if he didn’t take me to the game). You can bet I gave him my extra ticket in 2004 though, and I have the program from that one too. And save the rhetoric about the “best fans in baseball” because I’m not barking up that tree here. “Best fans” or not, it’s hard to argue that St. Louis is a great baseball town.
What we can be proud of (and Mr. Dewitt can be thankful for) is the legacy of love for the Cardinals that we have once again fostered. Because of my behavior over the last week my children will put their lives on hold for October baseball when they have families of their own. And although we do not get to watch ‘Albert Pujols do everything’ this post season, I can be proud that this great American past time has once again made a deeper notch into the hearts and minds of the next generation.
As someone preparing to welcome a new member into Cardinal Nation in the coming months, this really hits home. It’s how I grew to love the Cardinals, it’s how my folks grew to love the Cardinals – hell, it’s how my wife grew to love the Cardinals, if by default.
Every Cardinal fan on the planet was hoping for, almost expected, a trip to the World Series this year. That didn’t happen. Yeah, I’m (we’re) bummed. But gosh were they fun to watch in August. And in April. And every other dang month of the season. I’ll live and die with every Pujols at-bat and ninth inning pitch again next season, with a new fan in my lap. I can’t tell you how much I’m looking forward to it.
When do pitchers and catchers report?
There was an excellent letter to the editor at STLToday.com yesterday that I felt obliged to share with you, not only because I think it’s a fitting tribute to this past season’s Cardinal team – despite the unsavory finish – but also because it sums up a lot of the sentimentality I feel toward the Cardinals as well.
I struggled to find one snippet I could quote here that would sum up the whole thing, so instead I’m going to pull out tinier bits and then you’ll just have to go read the whole thing yourself via the link above.
As a kid I remember my mom and dad putting everything on hold to watch playoff games.
…
This town did not just “happen” to be a great baseball town, it’s made of generations and generations of families putting life on hold to watch the Cardinals.
Yep, and actually, as I think I’ve mentioned here before – I still have the 1982 World Series program on my bookshelf. A gift from my father that I will always cherish (even if he didn’t take me to the game). You can bet I gave him my extra ticket in 2004 though, and I have the program from that one too. And save the rhetoric about the “best fans in baseball” because I’m not barking up that tree here. “Best fans” or not, it’s hard to argue that St. Louis is a great baseball town.
What we can be proud of (and Mr. Dewitt can be thankful for) is the legacy of love for the Cardinals that we have once again fostered. Because of my behavior over the last week my children will put their lives on hold for October baseball when they have families of their own. And although we do not get to watch ‘Albert Pujols do everything’ this post season, I can be proud that this great American past time has once again made a deeper notch into the hearts and minds of the next generation.
As someone preparing to welcome a new member into Cardinal Nation in the coming months, this really hits home. It’s how I grew to love the Cardinals, it’s how my folks grew to love the Cardinals – hell, it’s how my wife grew to love the Cardinals, if by default.
Every Cardinal fan on the planet was hoping for, almost expected, a trip to the World Series this year. That didn’t happen. Yeah, I’m (we’re) bummed. But gosh were they fun to watch in August. And in April. And every other dang month of the season. I’ll live and die with every Pujols at-bat and ninth inning pitch again next season, with a new fan in my lap. I can’t tell you how much I’m looking forward to it.
When do pitchers and catchers report?
Monday, October 12, 2009
Chopping Wood For The Hot Stove
By Cardinal70
It's a cold, rainy morning here in Arkansas, which finely matches the mood of Cardinal Nation after the quick exit from the postseason. There's this kind of limbo that goes on when your team is out of the playoffs early. There are still games going (though the LDS have been pretty anticlimatic this year, save the fact closers can't seem to get the job done) but your team isn't a part of them. You can't go full bore into discussions and rumors of next year just yet, though.
What you can do is a little retrospection. At least, that's what Tony LaRussa did yesterday. I saw very little of this series, unfortunately, but I have to agree with LaRussa, I expected a better game on Saturday that what happened. Like I say, I didn't see a single pitch of that one, but just looking at the score and comments, it didn't seem like they had much fight in them. To score just one run in a game Vicente Padilla is pitching just doesn't seem right, though par for the course for this year's version of the Cardinals.
The link above notes that Troy Glaus, Rick Ankiel and Joel Pineiro are not likely to return next year. None of these are huge surprises. The focus on Mark DeRosa has knocked Glaus out of the picture, though many of us would be just fine with DeRosa walking and David Freese taking over the job. Either way, though, Glaus really isn't in the plans, especially after the injury problems this year.
Pineiro has really pitched too well for the Cardinals to keep him. They have Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright and Kyle Lohse already locked up and management has continually said they want to plug in at least one home-grown arm into the rotation in 2010. With John Smoltz around, most likely back if he decides he wants to pitch again, there's not much room left to keep Pineiro. Besides, we saw what happened the last time he signed after a contract drive.
Ankiel....oh, Rick. Amazingly, the separation between Ankiel and a fan base that has followed him, nurtured him, rooted for him through the good and the bad and the good is not likely to be as painful as was expected six months ago. A .233 average and a propensity for the strikeout will do that. As Pip notes, Rick leaves St. Louis with exactly the same number of strikeouts as a hitter as he had as a pitcher. I've always been a fan of Rick, but he doesn't make enough contact to make him worth a bench slot and the outfield is probably going to be full in St. Louis for some time to come.
Today actually will be a busy day around the front office, as a lot of the recap meetings and initial thoughts for next year will be happening. Don't expect a whole lot of public news out of that, though, unless LaRussa or Dave Duncan decide not to return. Bernie Mikalsz addresses that along with some other questions and he comes to the conclusion that I had, that TLR isn't leaving after that performance. He couldn't go out on that note and be able to rest in retirement, I don't think. It wasn't the loss, it was the lack of competitiveness.
Someone who probably won't be back next year, though, is hitting coach Hal McRae. Besides the fact that the offense just never clicked, even with Matt Holliday and DeRosa in the lineup, there's this quote from John Mozeliak:
"It did seem the way we were approaching things at the plate, obviously it wasn't successful," Mozeliak said. "When things aren't going right, you've got to change. Did we make the right adjustments or not? As we sit here today, we had not."
I'd suggest McRae start updating his resume, because that is not a vote of confidence.
The stove may not be heated yet, but the preparations are being made. It could be another active offseason for St. Louis, so you better get ready.
It's a cold, rainy morning here in Arkansas, which finely matches the mood of Cardinal Nation after the quick exit from the postseason. There's this kind of limbo that goes on when your team is out of the playoffs early. There are still games going (though the LDS have been pretty anticlimatic this year, save the fact closers can't seem to get the job done) but your team isn't a part of them. You can't go full bore into discussions and rumors of next year just yet, though.
What you can do is a little retrospection. At least, that's what Tony LaRussa did yesterday. I saw very little of this series, unfortunately, but I have to agree with LaRussa, I expected a better game on Saturday that what happened. Like I say, I didn't see a single pitch of that one, but just looking at the score and comments, it didn't seem like they had much fight in them. To score just one run in a game Vicente Padilla is pitching just doesn't seem right, though par for the course for this year's version of the Cardinals.
The link above notes that Troy Glaus, Rick Ankiel and Joel Pineiro are not likely to return next year. None of these are huge surprises. The focus on Mark DeRosa has knocked Glaus out of the picture, though many of us would be just fine with DeRosa walking and David Freese taking over the job. Either way, though, Glaus really isn't in the plans, especially after the injury problems this year.
Pineiro has really pitched too well for the Cardinals to keep him. They have Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright and Kyle Lohse already locked up and management has continually said they want to plug in at least one home-grown arm into the rotation in 2010. With John Smoltz around, most likely back if he decides he wants to pitch again, there's not much room left to keep Pineiro. Besides, we saw what happened the last time he signed after a contract drive.
Ankiel....oh, Rick. Amazingly, the separation between Ankiel and a fan base that has followed him, nurtured him, rooted for him through the good and the bad and the good is not likely to be as painful as was expected six months ago. A .233 average and a propensity for the strikeout will do that. As Pip notes, Rick leaves St. Louis with exactly the same number of strikeouts as a hitter as he had as a pitcher. I've always been a fan of Rick, but he doesn't make enough contact to make him worth a bench slot and the outfield is probably going to be full in St. Louis for some time to come.
Today actually will be a busy day around the front office, as a lot of the recap meetings and initial thoughts for next year will be happening. Don't expect a whole lot of public news out of that, though, unless LaRussa or Dave Duncan decide not to return. Bernie Mikalsz addresses that along with some other questions and he comes to the conclusion that I had, that TLR isn't leaving after that performance. He couldn't go out on that note and be able to rest in retirement, I don't think. It wasn't the loss, it was the lack of competitiveness.
Someone who probably won't be back next year, though, is hitting coach Hal McRae. Besides the fact that the offense just never clicked, even with Matt Holliday and DeRosa in the lineup, there's this quote from John Mozeliak:
"It did seem the way we were approaching things at the plate, obviously it wasn't successful," Mozeliak said. "When things aren't going right, you've got to change. Did we make the right adjustments or not? As we sit here today, we had not."
I'd suggest McRae start updating his resume, because that is not a vote of confidence.
The stove may not be heated yet, but the preparations are being made. It could be another active offseason for St. Louis, so you better get ready.
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